Not sure I would quite go this far (God is the only that can really say this) but RC2 certainly has denied Gods power that Paul wrote about in II Tim 3:5. Im not seeing how sitting in a church building once a week listening to sermons treats things such as depression or alcoholism. Albert Mohler is a Social Justice Warrior, make no mistake about it. Unfortunately, less than 10 percent of them receive any treatment.. The Bible says that those who profess to be brothers in Christ and are drunkards need to be expelled from the church. She can correct me if I did. I noticed the same kinds of barbs being dished out over there, so its not just this blog, this issue, this thread, and me in particular. Why would they have to go to a church, all so a pastor could do that same Googling to give them the names and addresses? That a pastor is a drunk, is reason enough for the Congregation to fire him. He gave several steps to be taken in dealing with a professed believer who is living a life of rebellion against God. Most revealing are the forums and blogs by ex members. Ill also know when I start to hear from some of the others he did the same to and they let me know hes confessed and repented to them too. To seek to return to the Lord means to leave behind all of those temptations that cause one to fall and to no longer go where one is tempted. I have explained myself and you have explained yourself. Sproul, Sr., might want to get a more personal glimpse into the man to whom many have looked for spiritual guidance and wisdom. He was sentenced to 1 year and 183 days incarceration. To me, the bottom line is Does RSJ want help? Secondarily, what were the terms of his probation? Hes has experienced tragedy and he needs treatment but at the core is still an odious personality. (RSJs life definitely qualifies, sad to say.) If I bailed them out every time they got into trouble theyd never learn that their bad choices have bad consequences. The road to Mendota was very long and wound sharply through thick woods. : Not born again huh? So a married guy being an alcoholic is a justification for using a cheating site? I communicated directly with one of his children and received confirmed that this quote was from one of them (and also received permission to post it here). Should alcoholics and drug addicts be enabled? Yes, I remember being part of a group meeting where a social worker talked to a crowd of us about how to deal with an alcoholic in our group. Ill try hard to not do it again. One or two DUIs is usually not enough. The problem drinker, on the other hand, CAN help it. And anything less is colluding in killing the alcoholic. More than likely his therapy is with someone lacking the qualifications, such as a pastor fan-boy giving him counseling. Also, it might be reasonable to assume that since Lisa didnt specifically state that RC Jr had an AA or CR sponsor hes probably not in an alky support group. I dont think we can assume that a person not mentioning getting treatment in a blog post means they dont believe in people getting treatment. After internship I started a residency in psychiatry but I did not finish the residence. Purge the evil person from among you.. 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.. Velour wrote: I wouldnt wish it on RC Jr. During all my time of distress, nobody in the church was there for me, whether inside or outside a brick building with a cross and steeple. I fully believe that, if hes agreeable to treatment, that down the road that he should be willing to make both private amends to the people he harmed and public amends at churches where he caused harm. Okay, maybe a little anger too. Gail wrote: Often it is tried multiple times. But at the age of 15, R.C. And I cant thank you enough for the lovely story that you wrote to us yesterday about how your church and clergy loved and cared for that woman church member who was an alcoholic and who wasnt clean and sober. Finally, if anyone who is aware of further drunk driving or other forms of abuse,I hope that they will call Child Protective Services. Thankfully, the truth of Scripture (all have sinned) helped me to realize that there is only even ground at the foot of the Cross. In time, this changes for the better. Perhaps she is basing it on much more than that. @ Deborah Coan: So you fully agree with what Sproul wrote in that article? youll follow his example. He mocks people who dont drink like he does. By the way if you had bothered to read the post, you can see I did find some help by way of material by MHPs, but I had to find that material on my own, because the MHPs I consulted in person over years were or no help. Purge the evil person from among you.. My mothers brother died of alcoholism. Steam explosions from a pressurized system rupture are BAD. There are people who are alcoholics and yes, the first drink (beer, etc.) A different opinion here, perhaps, or a different way of looking at this. In this issue I hope that your apparent hope is justified. His license was reinstated early this month with no restrictions. It was in response to this. Edit your search or learn more. He is survived by his wife of 57 years, Vesta; their two children, Sherrie Dorotiak and Robert Craig Sproul; 11 grandchildren and five great-grandchildren. I agree that Sproul 2 shouldnt be enabled by his father, Sproul 1. My friends parents were killed on impact, and my friend was severely injured. As bad as his alcoholism is it pales in comparison to all the spiritual and emotional carnage hes caused. I have to be careful what I say because of my blog and if you went on to say JA is against treatment for alcoholics based on what you thought, you would be giving misinformation. I did some research. (but then, in certain christian circles, mocking for all sorts of things seems to be endemic, which is a possibly related problem). You have taken this quote out of context . After he became the scapegoat and the Father had imputed to him every sin of every one of his people, the most intense, dense concentration of evil ever experienced on this planet was exhibited. I got hit by it some 20-odd years ago, when my bathtub plumbing sprung a slow leak into the unit below me, occupied by a retired rummy (retired as in Im Retired!). He has used his position of authority and harmed people. I am glad that anti-depressant medications worked for you. This issue of RC Jr having suffered tragedies (the loss of his wife in 2011 to cancer, the loss of his daughter in 2012), has been brought up here and elsewhere repeatedly. That is an exaggeration and overstatement. Having said that, I suggest you read the verses I gave (1 Cor 5:11-13). It was a life changing experience. And yes, God can do anything he wants. He died on December 14, 2017 in Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA. I think Sproul is a copy of Mark Driscoll. It got depressing, I have lost well over 200 of the people I worked with, most of them younger than I am. We all grieve over our grown children when they inflict pain on themselves and others knowing that most of the time our help is rejected. (dont have the V in front of me). Based on Velours behavior in this thread especially, she isnt quite as kind-hearted or caring as you and her other friend who usually jumps to her defense feel she is. You might like to listen to them. Im not giving him a pass on any abusive behavior. Someone commented and said that this was the only time that R.C. Heres the pattern thats been repeated many times over the years: RC commits some grievous transgression, gets busted, is held accountable, confesses and repents, but then is quickly shown to have simply used a show of confession and repentance as a means to an end. The only way to get an alcoholic to seek treatment is to pull the rug out from under them: no money, support, etc. The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want.jr.s book. youll follow his example. Like Mr Sin-Leveler higher in the thread, I just chalked that up to Christianese Boilerplate. Instead he said the charges against his son were fraudulent which meant he was basically accusing everyone of being liars. I dont recall anyone saying addictions alone warranted anyone being kicked out. I have said nothing medical at all in any way. There just arent that many emotionally healthy churches who even know how to genuinely love sober people, let alone the chemically dependent ones. (So sorry for your terrible experience Dee). That is your point of contention, not mine. I think what I am trying yo say is each person stands before God on his/her own.were we guilty of our sons choices,? Not everyone can financially afford to see a MHP, either. The parents would go to the local country club on Saturday nights, and they paid me well to watch their children, who were fantastic little people. They should face the consequences of their actions, including job loss. Perhaps it would be wise for RC2 to be under the oversight of a completely different church where he could be viewed as just another church member rather than RC1s son and the failed pastor. I would just like to add that many Al-Anon meetings are safe and warm places. It is also true that there is an even higher standard for church pastors and leaders a number of scriptures address this issue. Unfortunately his daddy stepping in and called the charges fraudulent and put Jr right back in the pulpit via Ligonier conferences. 1. An Infographic on Tullian Tchividjians Pursuit of Women and a Public/Publication Platform, GRACE Releases Statement Regarding Tullian Tchividjian Supports Victims, Challenges Churches with ConstructiveChanges, 1. JA, I addressed that in a blog post on my Miss Daisy Blog some time ago (that my posts at Barbaras blog were censored for mentioning codependency. I can totally understand RCSproul wanting to protect his son, What I dont understand is his lack of faith in Gid dealing with his son. I quoted this post because it has both your posts in it. First of all, it can be pretty hard to define just what gossip is. Sproul Jr. needs serous help. Yes, he shouldnt have been on Ashley Madison, but hed lost his wife to cancer and was probably lonely. It doesnt take any effort to destroy such a lame excuse. So sorry my lived experience doesnt bolster her view points and philosophy. Barbaras comment on Friday at 5:40 p.m. It lets him off the hook for all the spiritual abuse and leaves him free to weasel his way back into ministry once the dust settles. No one has said we shouldnt try. But when we have followed the path of destruction he has left in his wake for decades, I hope you can understand why our first reaction was not Get treatment for RC2. Its just that our first thought is for his past victims and future victims if he is allowed to continue. Although the church is not an official Foursquare church, it appears they are welcoming of the charismatic gifts. It was commonplace at those church parties that minor children were served alcoholic beverages, including drinks spiked with Everclear (190 proof grain alcohol). 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